Med anledning av mötesprotokollets per 20130626 omfattning önskar jag särskilt lyfta fram punkt 10 genom att förmedla följande dialog mellan Philip Luppens (programmerare AT4AM Core Toolkit) och Nicolas Pettiaux (drivkraft RMLL):
Yay! \o/



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [at4am] Information about at4am during RMLL
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:35:29 +0200
From: Philip Luppens
Reply-To: Automatic Tool for AMendments Mailing List
To: Nicolas Pettiaux
CC: Automatic Tool for AMendments Mailing List

On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 5:59 PM, Nicolas Pettiaux wrote:
2013/6/27 Philip Luppens:

Dear Philip,
> The idea is that I refuse to call a 1.0 before all loose
> ends have been resolved, even if that means a delay of several weeks/months.
I can understand

> We're still learning ourselves the hangs of governing an open source
> project, and while I do have some experience from within the ASF, it's
> something else to start from scratch. We'll see where it takes us, and I
> hope to get some honest criticism and feedback about what works, and what
> doesn't.

at least we could let the participants of RMLL/LSM know that their
honest criticism and feedback is expected.

Any feedback is welcome. Due to the nature of the project, the assumed adopters are not exactly known for being a) very vocal nor b) very quick in their adoption. We're low on resources, but we aim high - even if just to develop a vision that can be shared for the future.

Wouldn't an access to a running instance of at4am, filled with data
would help the community to work with  at4am ? Would it be possible to
announce such a thing ?

It's perfectly possible to run your own instance of AT4AM, backed by for example a PostgreSQL database (which is what I'm running locally). The instances on, however, are backed by an in-memory database, so whenever we do a (nightly) deployment, the backend is wiped clean.

Now, I have been thinking (a lot) about federation & importing of trusted content, but until we can convince the EP to share its published proposals in a more open format (preferably in Akoma Ntoso (AN)), this will be limited to those source text that are converted (semi)-manually. Afaik, the AN transformation in the EP is not yet entirely into place, and the existing XML schema in use is too limited and would prove quite challenging to transform automatically (of course, once again Italy shows us how it's done by providing pretty much all their documents in AN).

> What kind of information are you looking for, exactly?
Anything that would attract the attention to many people from France,
Germany, Belgium, Spain and elsewhere who try hard to convince their
parlements and governements to use free software and who could push
them to use at4am.

Well, at this moment we seem to have some interest coming from Italy. I'm not familiar at all with the procedures nor the way of amending or drafting in any of the aforementioned countries, but I do believe the core is flexible enough to handle those cases as well. The only problem is the availability of source texts ...

I'm not entirely sure what would be of interest to those attending the workshop; we do aim to provide in time (given enough resources), a full turn-key parliamentary solution (drafting, marking, amending, voting, consolidating, ... ), but this will remain a distant dream until we get more backing.

There's also the difference in target audience: we aim to provide governments and large organisations with these tools, but they might just as well be used to improve legislation by allowing citizens to participate actively, and even for lobbyists to make their lives easier (although no-one wants to admit that publicly, of course).

There will also be a political rond table at RMLL/LSM onTuesday 9
morning with MEP
where the topic of at4am could also in few words be discussed.

Anything related to AT4AM is considered a step forward, so yes, if possible, try to raise the topic.

As I understand it, at4am will be a free software that could help
parliaments to collaborate on the tools they use, but also allow the
citizens to follow more closely the evolution of the legislative
texts. All this is for me very important.

It will become more and more important as more people want to participate in the making of laws, as they demand more transparency and insight into the legislative processes, and as they demand a more streamlined and cost-effective government. Our tool is but once tiny building block in getting governments to adopt a new strategy and to migrate away from closed source & proprietary formats (I do start to sound like a political activist now, don't I? *sigh*).

> By the way, I originally had this workshop planned on the 12th of July - did
> it move?

I don't know if it was announced earlier on July 12th.

This JURI session at the EP has as last talk at 17.20 - 17.35 « The
experience of the EP with free and open source software» Giancarlo
Vilella, Director-General, DG ITEC

Mr Vilella could speak about at4am too. Just a guess.

I'm assuming he will. And 'paperless'. Or 'papersmart', as our friends from the UN so eloquently put it.





Nicolas Pettiaux - - #rmll2013 - 8 au 11 juillet
Libre Software Meeting @ Brussels : 200 talks, 30 workshops - July 8-11
Rencontres mondiales du logiciel libre @ Bruxelles : 200 conférences,
30 ateliers

"We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand." - Randy Pausch